Curse

Abedeus · May 19, 2008, 08:06 PM // 20:06

But he posted this as a Mo/N. Otherwise Divine Intervention and Divine Healing would have another reason to be wtfbad on his bar.

Because he wanted something to REPLACE necro. So 2x necro + something else. If he had 3x necro, he wouldn't post this thread ;d

Belonah15 · May 20, 2008, 09:59 AM // 09:59

My thinking on the OP's problem:
1. He says he is a E/Mo, therefore would not use skills like SY! or TNTF. Depending on how he plays he is most likely to pull aggro onto himself.
2. He wants to do Sabway but does not have access to Factions or EotN, therefore are missing out on some of the skills and professions available that makes Sabway works nicely. No access to Rt (although some Rt are available in NF).
3. He says he wants to do Vanquishing, therefore I assume he has completed the Nightfall campaign, and has unlocked all the NF heroes. If he has Razah, he probably does not have the skills to do a Rt/N.
4. He should have MoW and Olias, therefore can setup at least the SS and MM parts of Sabway.
5. Due to missing skills he would have to compensate with "lesser effective" skills and henches. Most probably he will have to run with Mhenlo (Healer) / Alesia (healer) / Lina (Prot) / Kihm (Prot).

Therefore:
- Replacing the Rt/N healer would best fall to a Monk hero. I did consider a Paragon, but for reasons below went with the Monk hero.
- He does not have much cover against conditions and hexes, but he will OK healing & protection. A skill like [Martyr] will work well to augment the healers, and take some pressure of those healer henches who is notoriously bad at e-management.
- [Plague Sending] may not be a great skill by itself but considering its recharge and purpose together with Martyr, the 2 skills make for quick party condition removal, and helps putting pressure on "target and all adjacent foes". If people do not like the sacrifice or offensive style then use [Purge Conditions].
- [Divine Intervention] again may not be a great skill, but considering dealing with healer / prot henches it is needed to catch the ball when (not if) they drop it. When the minions gets hammered on the henches will spend their energy trying to maintain them, and most probably end up watching the party die.
- [Divine Healing] is a low cost (5e) self & party heal. With only Proph & NF, and the elite spot already used, there are not many other options. Besides knowing how henches operate, I would rather use something that heals the whole party for one good reason: If this hero needs to heal himself it means there is trouble and the henches are not coping.
- [Healing Seed] I added this because he is an E/Mo, and like I said above would probably gather up some aggro. The henches would concentrate healing on him and leave the rest. This skill would mitigate that effect by healing the other party members. Also one of the few skills that can duplicate [Weapon of Remedy] or [Weapon of Warding]
- [Heal Other] is again not a favorite but it duplicates [Mend Body and Soul], and due to the high Healing & DF attributes packs a good punch.
- [Smite Hex] or [Remove Hex] is personal preference in my opinion. [Cure Hex] is much better but its a EotN skill. The 4 sec recharge makes little difference if you kill the hexers first. USe whatever you comfortable with.
- [Renew Life] ... Another story on its own this. People believe its terrible, but it has 4 sec cast and a 5 sec recharge. It revives at 50% health, but it heals the revived and "allies in earshot" for a decent amount. Comes down to 5e cost for a party wide heal of up to 180hp. When this skill is used it means there is trouble and you would love the 180hp added to everyone.

I hate writing walls of text, and I hate posting builds. Obviously I have to do this to fill in the missing post, plus defend it. This is my original build, hopefully well argumented and thought through. If its horrible, please give me valid arguments, and post your own original build.

Abedeus · May 20, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03

I know Martyr and PS have low recharge, but on hero it's a disadvantage. They WILL spam it as soon as there is just one condition on any of teammates.

As for Divine Intervention, it's not good. Hero will cast it on someone under 30% hp, it will or not heal, and 30 seconds of useless skill.

Divine Healing... Not good. 51 heal at 12 DF and I don't think you have THAT MUCH in that attribute.

Healing Seed - eh. Will cast on minions, you know? Minions alive, your team dead. If not, he will cast it as soon as someone will get hit two or three times.

Heal Other - ;d Spammable 10 energy skill is bad on hero without e-management.

If you don't see how Remove Hex with 4 seconds faster recharge is better than Smite Hex with a VERY low dmg around your teammate, then don't make builds, rly. Why not Deny Hexes if you have 2 other Divine Favor skills? 3 hexes at the time with no drawbacks is great.

15 energy for Renew Life? If someone had so much energy, he would use it to heal someone, not waste time rezzing him after that. Btw, it heals only for 115 on 12 healing prayers, not 180. Oh and 4 seconds rez is bad. Inside of fight easy to interrupt, after fight the healing is almost useless.

Happy now? Like I said few days ago, don't post a build if you don't want to hear complains if it sucks.

Belonah15 · May 20, 2008, 05:04 PM // 17:04

You are stating the obvious downsides of the skills and hero/hench behaviour, something most people are aware of. H/H spamming skills at the wrong time for the wrong reasons makes the H/H AI dumb, not the skills. AI Monks spamming heals on minions is a common occurrence irrelevant of the skills they are given.

Deny Hexes is a Factions skill. If you can't read don't make posts, rly.

Please list the cast times of all Monk resurrect skills. Then please add the Divine Favor healing bonus of 3.2 points per skill level for each Monk spell cast.

I still do not see you offering better alternatives to the OP's problem.

(Seems I fell into a troll trap in this thread. End of my posting here.)

DarkSpirit · May 20, 2008, 11:26 PM // 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

I know Martyr and PS have low recharge, but on hero it's a disadvantage. They WILL spam it as soon as there is just one condition on any of teammates.

Depending on what the one condition is, that maybe precisely what you want. For example, if my DSlash/SY warrior is blinded, I would say yes, please remove it for me right away. Martyr can only be cast for 5e every 10s, which is not really a huge energy pit even for a monk and I am sure the hero would use other skills too. As for Plague Sending the only potential problem I can see is sacrificing too often since it only costs 1e to cast, but with enough healing that shouldn't be a common problem.

I can't say much for the rest of the skills, but if he uses a Mo/N instead of a N/Mo, having energy management skills can be useful.

Quote:

Healing Seed - eh. Will cast on minions, you know? Minions alive, your team dead. If not, he will cast it as soon as someone will get hit two or three times.

I disagree, Sab gave a good defense on the issue of healing minions instead of party members so I would point you to her post:

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...2&postcount=49

Abedeus · May 21, 2008, 10:18 AM // 10:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Belonah15

You are stating the obvious downsides of the skills and hero/hench behaviour, something most people are aware of. H/H spamming skills at the wrong time for the wrong reasons makes the H/H AI dumb, not the skills. AI Monks spamming heals on minions is a common occurrence irrelevant of the skills they are given.

Deny Hexes is a Factions skill. If you can't read don't make posts, rly.

Please list the cast times of all Monk resurrect skills. Then please add the Divine Favor healing bonus of 3.2 points per skill level for each Monk spell cast.

I still do not see you offering better alternatives to the OP's problem.

(Seems I fell into a troll trap in this thread. End of my posting here.)

Lol finally. Don't post crap-builds anymore, please. People might use them.

If I'm stating obvious downsides of pretty bad skills, why are you still crying about it? They are bad.

Healing Seed AIN'T good when used on a minion. Sure, healing minions is nice, but not with monk spells. It will work 10 seconds and has a recharge of 25... And not all minions will be healed, unless you have all melee and all will clump together. But then one AoE and bye (searing flame djinns, for example).

Deny Hexes maybe is from Factions, but still Remove Hex is better. A lot. ,,only 4 seconds lolonoob''. Yeah, but it's recharge is lower by 1/3 than Smite Hex's. So... in 36 seconds, you remove 3 hexes with SH/RH (assuming you have perfect timing and we dont count aftercast/cast time, because it's same on both skills). But in 36 second also remove 4,5 hexes. You see the difference?

Alternatives:
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Mo...verance_Hybrid (change Signet of Rejuvenation to something like Leech Signet)
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Mo/any_WoH_Hybrid (Cure Hex -> Remove Hex)
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Mo...Condition_Monk (Gift of Health -> Aegis, drop Healing Prayers and put into Protection/Divine Favor)
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:Mo...f_Regeneration

There you go, 4 better builds. With proph and nightfall, without factions and eotn. Although monk has a lot of useful skills in Factions... Like hard rezzes and some healing spells. Oh and Spirit Bond.

Oh, and about Divine Favor and 3.2 per stat... Funny, because (Renew Life) 115 + 42 = 157 only for rezzed person. Everyone else gets only 115.
And like I stated before - cast time isn't so important in battle. Monk must heal, not rez. If monk has to rez someone, this means either he failed at his job or someone failed at his. But the worst thing about hero/hench is that they LOVE to rez even if everyone is under 40% hp. You can disable it for monk heroes, but then again, what's the point of a skill that heals after battle? In-battle your team will loose more than 100 hp in those 4 and 3/4 seconds (aftercast before you can use any skill).